Feeling Tense; Not Feeling The Tenses

[taste_is_sweet]

I've been reading fanfiction for over fifteen years now, and this is something I have never been able to understand. Why do so many stories flit between verb tenses from paragraph to paragraph or even sentence to sentence?

I can completely understand how easy it would be to make these kind of mistakes if you change a story from present to past tense or past to present, but all stories can't have been edited like that, right? So what gives?

I know my grammar has been far from perfect and I occasionally have a thing for repetitive sentences and histrionics (among other problems), but I can say with complete confidence that this is a mistake I've never made unless I was changing the tense of a story while editing it. I'm not trying to single anyone out and I'm definitely not thinking of anyone in particular. It's just that I've been wondering about this for years.

So, can anyone out there enlighten me? How is it possible to get your tenses wrong when you're just straight-up writing a story? Have any of you guys done it?

Comments

[sholio]

The place where I tend to run into trouble is when I'm trying to write more than one tense in the same story - for example, a story that's largely in present tense, but also references things that happened to the characters in the past. It's not so much a problem of forgetting what tense I'm supposed to be in; I get confused about what tense is grammatically correct in the border areas.

But I think I've seen what you're talking about - stories that randomly shift between past and present from sentence to sentence. And yeah, I have no idea about that one. I'm pretty sure I don't do that. Actually, it's hard for me to imagine doing that; the tense is part of the flow of the story for me ... it would be like randomly changing a character's name.

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

Yeah, exactly! I mean, I've read stuff like this:

"Don't you touch him!" Steve shouted. Kolya just laughs.

And I'm like you--I have such trouble not keeping tenses consistent that I even had problems writing that example.

I do agree that some tenses are just difficult, though, like the more-than-perfect past tense (he'd had his appendex removed before he'd gone to Atlantis. Or something?). Those are a bitch.

Thank you for commenting! :D

[iadorespike]

Sorry, sweetie...I really don't think that there's any enlightenment to be had. :( I can tell you that it makes me nuts when I'm reading and run into it. It's jarring - know what I mean? Eh.

*pets you*

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

I appreciate your sympathy. :D

[niamh-sage.livejournal.com]

I've noticed this too, but not just with fanfic. Also, p.o.v. changes. I think it's just lack of attention, and possibly also lack of editing/beta reading. A good beta should be able to spot this sort of thing, but I think a lot of people get excited about they've written and just want to get it out there, so skip that step. I am guilty of this myself :$

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

Really? I've never noticed you having tense flipping troubles, though I've certainly seen problems with POV changes. I was just reading a Hawaii 5-0 fic last night where this happened in the middle of a scene. I think it was intentional, but it still felt kind of awkward. I also agree that a beta should find these things, but sometimes we all miss stuff, I guess. :)

[niamh-sage.livejournal.com]

No I meant that I was guilty of sending a story out before adequately proofing it, out of excitement about having written something. Naturally, once it's out there in the wild, you immediately spot all the cringetastic mistakes. :P

One of my friends did the p.o.v. flipping thing once, and I picked it up when I bought a copy of the anthology containing the story. Ouch.

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

Definite ouch! I'm amazed none of the anthology editors found that.

I knew what you meant about not always waiting for betas/edits. Sorry if my response wasn't clear. :)

[niamh-sage.livejournal.com]

I know! I was surprised that the eds didn't pick it up either - it's quite a well known anthology.

And don't worry, I'm easily confused these days. My head is full of bike. :P

[lavvyan.livejournal.com]

I usually mess up my tenses if I take a break writing in favour of reading. If it's a long-ish story and uses a different tense, I sometimes get used to that one and muck it up.

Then again, I tend to notice after a paragraph or two and go back to fix it.

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah--thanks for reminding me about this. I noticed it myself just on Friday. I'd been reading some fanfic in present tense, and then almost started writing in present tense when I went back to the story I'm writing. But I also noticed it quickly too. :)

[caras-galadhon.livejournal.com]

Why do so many stories flit between verb tenses from paragraph to paragraph or even sentence to sentence?
I wish I knew. It throws me right out of the story, and I have not, as of yet, come up with a gentle way to mention it might be an issue when I encounter it.

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

Yeah! 'Your story might have been great, except your tenses bounce around like a hyperactive ping-pong ball so I couldn't read it' probably wouldn't go over well. :)

[hibernate.livejournal.com]

Oh, I have such trouble keeping tenses straight. It's not even a foreign language thing, because I do it in Swedish too. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's just something that doesn't come naturally. I have to think about it all the time not to mess up.

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

I appreciate you letting me know, not to mention actively trying to make sure your tenses stay consistent. :)

[mific.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it drives me crazy too and I self-beta like mad to avoid it. I don't think a some people were taught much grammar there for a while in schools. There were a few years when they didn't seem to teach apostrophes or tenses, etc. I have to edit stuff my students write and I'm constantly slashing at wonky tenses with the red pen!

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

Wow. It's possible--I remember back in the 80s that learning proper grammar came from an elective course in what was then grade 13. For decades I punctuated by what felt right from what I remembered from all the novels I'd read. I actually really learned how to use some punctuation marks properly only about three years ago.

But, I never got my tenses wrong. At least not ordinary present/past tenses.

[kimboosan.livejournal.com]

Oh lawd, this is something I do all the time so I understand how it happens; but it is also something I'm very careful about fixing before I let the story out into the wilds. But no, I don't know what faulty switch in my brain puts the tense change there, because I know it's wrong as soon as I read it. I've never really discovered a pattern to it.

I think for a lot of fanfic this goes in the same bucket as random POV changes (which drives me nuts): inexperience/ignorance. Everybody has to learn sometime, I guess, but I do get the feeling that a lot of writers aren't interested in learning at all. *sigh*

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

I know the feeling. And thank you on behalf of me and all the other readers of your awesome stories that you do such an excellent job of fixing any mistakes.

[sgamadison.livejournal.com]

I'd have to say my biggest problem is commas. I used to know what to do with them, got confused, now toss them in a story like great lashings of salt, and hope I'm not overdoing it. ;-)

Oh! I'm with kimboo_york on the random POV changes too. I don't mind POV changing within a story, or even within a scene (if done judiciously) but from sentence to sentence? Gah!

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

I hear you. Commas are very tricky things, aren't they? I still mostly put them in where they feel right, but I've been using them a lot less over the past few years. I've found that where I think a breath should come in a sentence often isn't where anyone else would put one. :)

And yes--if someone can't keep their tenses straight within the same paragraph, I almost always stop reading. Then again, usually the tenses aren't the only problem in stories like that.

[busaikko]

I do this! Fortunately, my betas usually catch it.

There are two reasons:
1. I'm writing more than one story at once, and bouncing from one to another gets me mixed up.
2. I'm writing in more than once place, usually getting brilliant(ish) ideas on the bus or in the store or at work and scribbling them down,a dn then adding them into the main file. And then realizing, damn.

[mific.livejournal.com]

I have just stared at your icon for five minutes, snorting.
*drags self back to writing fic*

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

Ah but you see, those reasons make sense! And you use betas and listen to them. Besides, having read your awesome stories, I really wouldn't say it's an enormous problem. :D

[rinkafic.livejournal.com]

I hope I'm not guilty of this. It would just be one more weakness I didn't realize I possessed. I'm having to go back and do punctuation 101 at the ripe old age of 44, I have been too long away from the classroom.

I find I make errors with tense when I'm writing quickly, trying to pour out the scene that is in my head. I usually catch them on the 2nd and 3rd read through.

"He'd had enough, reaching back to the table, he picked up the cup." I just wrote that as an example, that sentence bothers me, but I've forgotten why it should, or if it should.

[framlingem.livejournal.com]

Sorry, can't help myself. That sentence bothers you because it contains a comma splice. The second two thirds stand together fine, but the first part doesn't go with the second. "He'd had enough, reaching back to the table". See? Doesn't make sense. You can fix it by either splitting it into two sentences, or by using a semi-colon if reaching back to the table and picking up the cup is related to him having had enough of whatever he's had enough of.

He'd had enough. Reaching back to the table, he picked up the cup.

He'd had enough; reaching back to the table, he picked up the cup.

[rinkafic.livejournal.com]

That makes sense. Thank you for the response. I've been fretting of late about having -ing and -ed in the same sentence.

[framlingem.livejournal.com]

You're welcome! I hope it wasn't too brusque - I get enthused about punctuation, and sometimes I don't realize when I'm being rude.

[rinkafic.livejournal.com]

Nah, not at all, I appreciate the answer. It has been over 20 years since I last had a grammar class, I'm rusty and insecure.

:)

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say that tense flipping is one of your problems. And I would definitely say that you don't have many. (Hey, I bid on fic from you. :D)

I know someone else already responded to your feeling something was wrong with the sentence. Personally, I think it just needs a period:

He'd had enough. Reaching back to the table, he picked up the cup.

Because his having enough and getting the cup are two different actions. :)

Can I read that story? I want to know who's had enough and what they're drinking. :D

[rinkafic.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the feedback. You made me feel warm and fuzzy and less self-conscious.

I don't actually have a story to go around the sentence, I made it up on the spot to annoy myself with. hehehee.

Thansk for bidding on me, that also makes me feel the love. :)

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. You deserve warm and fuzzy all the time. :D

And damn it, now I really want a story to go with that sentence...

[rinkafic.livejournal.com]

I shall add that sentence to either the hel_japan story or vacationathon story I have in progress. :)

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

\o/

[gottalovev.livejournal.com]

ahhh verb tenses. I always have to be careful with those, but I know it and I therefore usually do a read through just to find the errors.

Most times I starts writing in past tense. Then, as I get in it, I suddenly switch to present tense because it comes more natural to me for some reason. When I groan and realize I did it AGAIN, I try to decide which fits better and stick with it. so I have to go through everything and fiddle. I always warn my betas to keep an eye open.

I don't seem to have that problem in French, weirdly. But then again, I've been writing in French my whole life and only for a little while in English.

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

It makes sense to me that you'd have less problem with verb tenses in your langue maternelle. God knows that trying to figure out how to form the various tenses in French can do me in. I admire anyone who is fluent enough in a second language to write in it! And may I add, wow. I didn't even know you weren't a native English speaker. I'm incredibly impressed.

[kisahawklin]

Oh, I totally do this. Normally it's because I'm coming out of a past tense patch back into a present tense story (a flashback or thought about the past, not a section - I don't mix tenses in my stories by sections, normally), or sometimes I just switch while I'm writing, and a paragraph or two later I'll put something in present tense and realize that it doesn't work with the rest of the sentence, and then I have to backtrack and see how long I've tense flipped and fix it. I have no idea what causes it, and I don't think I used to do this (or maybe I just didn't notice?). I do it now, though, and I still catch it sometimes after my betas miss it and I've had something posted for months.

I do know that when I take back up a story after having set it down (even just a day - when I start writing the next day) that I have to reread to make sure I start out in the same tense. In general, while I agree with busaikko that sometimes the variety of places and times and ways of writing means that the tense can get disjointed, I seem to just generally switch tenses randomly with no rhyme or reason, too. *shrug*

And yeah, I beta for people and this is one of those things that I catch a lot (I usually catch my own while I'm writing, or sometimes in my first self-edit after writing). It used to drive me crazy (which makes me think that I didn't used to tense flip before) because I didn't understand how people could *do* that. Now it drives me crazy because it's something that I think most people should fix themselves before sending to beta. There are a lot of things like that for me, but I'm getting crankier in my old age, I think. :)

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

Oh hey, I agree--I always feel deeply embarrassed if I ever send anything to beta and then find all kinds of typo errors that I should've seen and fixed beforehand.

Maybe it's reading so many hundreds of stories with differing tenses that has made you start to do it too? Though I will say I don't remember this ever being an issue for me when I was reading one of your stories. So even if it is a problem, you do an excellent job of fixing it. :D

[kisahawklin]

<3

It's not the only thing. I find myself messing up homonyms these days a surprising amount. I never used to do that, and it used to actively piss me off. I don't read stories that contain errors like this (except in beta, and honestly, I don't do that much beta work for beginners), so I can't even say it's exposure or anything. I have no idea, but I find it immensely frustrating. It's why I self-edit two or three times before I send anything to beta.

I think we all have our issues, and it's a matter of what you can fix and what your beta can catch and a willingness to learn. I'm easier on people these days. I still don't read fic with those sorts of issues, but I'm not so mean about those stories anymore. I figure I'll give the author another shot in a year or so, when they have a little more writing under their belt.

[taste-is-sweet.livejournal.com]

I think it's just getting older. :) I noticed a few homonym mistakes in what I was writing yesterday myself. It's like my fingers automatically type a word without any real input from my brain.

I'm also nicer than I used to be when I find these issues, though I still can't get through stories that have a lot of them because I keep getting bounced out of the narrative. Mellowing with age, i guess. :)